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[Jennifer Herold]

Don,

Most small biz owners such as "used car dealers" don't have the time nor the inclination to use a webpage building software to design their own site.  Further, they don't have the design skills to even know what looks good or how to monetize the site.  That's why you send them to web developers (such as myself).  There are lots of elements to consider...design, programming, payment processors (if applicable), etc. 

So I'd say continue to sell your services on the direct, in-person sales consult and outsource the web development to developers. 

[AndrewCavanagh]

Used car dealers are a good example of a business that has a
high transaction value.

Because they might make $2,000 or more from the sale of just
one car it's a no brainer to spend $1,500 or more on a website
that brings them more sales.

There are many other businesses that have high transaction
values...real estate agents, pool dealers, builders, insurance
agents etc etc.

Also you should be very careful assuming ordinary businesses
won't pay $1,500 for a website that helps them bring in more
sales and improves their follow up with clients.

$1,500 is a bargain for a website compared to hiring most
web design companies.

Many businesses are more than willing to hand over $5,000+
to a web designer for a website than never brings them sales.

If you're actually getting them real sales from a website you
design or makeover they'll be thrilled.

The feedback I'm getting from people who've read my report
and ventured out into the real world is that it is very easy
to get businesses to hire you to help them with their online
marketing.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[Lisa Preston]

I completely agree - small businesses might ask for more details on the how and why, but if you have the answers, they are more than happy to hand over a cheque for $1500 if it means increasing business.

I, too, live is a smaller town... and I have never had a problem demanding $1500, $2000, $3000 for a site. Keep in mind that when you do business locally, they want you to come to them - and you do end up training them on some of the basics.

I find a good idea is to search out other local web developers and find out their costs - and stay in the same range, or maybe a little higher.

[DA]

I'm a "Very Good" sales person and I LOVE, "In-Person" selling. . . . direct, face-to-face stuff where I can "read" my prospects Body Language and sense "How I can sell them".

Well. . . after a few days of contacting "used" car dealers. . . I found out a few things;
1)  I can see the OWNER (the person who writes the checks). . . instantly!
2)  I can "persuade" them to write a check RIGHT THEN and THERE for a website!

AND. . . . I "uncovered" a "HUGE WANT" among "used car dealers" that I will share with you folks who are "fortunate" enough to be reading this post;

And. . . by the way. . . I've made MUCHO DINERO in my sales career because I am "On The BattleField" everyday.   I have gotten most of my "Product Ideas" from actually VISITING with my "Target Market". . . asking questions. . . getting THEIR responses. . .  right then and there, as to what do THEY WANT. . . . (the Key Word is WANT!)(My Philosophy has always been, "Find Out What People WANT. . . and you got it made!)

What I discovered was;
. . . . .  "Used Car Dealers" have vehicles on their lots that are not selling.  So, they "take them to the "Auto Auctions" in their area.
In my area the major Auto Auction is every Tuesday where 200 to 300 cars are auctioned off.

Well. . . the used car people in my area have to travel 60 miles (Eugene, OR) to get the cars they want to sell. . . "on the Block".

They have to;
1)  BUY Gas. . . .
2)  PAY for someone to drive the cars to the auction
3)  PAY the auction a commission for selling their vehicles

Well. . . when I heard HOW this part of the "used car" business went on. . . I thought;
"Hey! Is there a BETTER WAY to do this?. . . get used car dealers to get "non-selling cars" OFF their lots. . . . WITHOUT having to pay all these fees AND take all this TIME to do this?

So. . . . here's what I came up with;  (I'm about to give you readers an insight into HOW "us entroopeners" go about our entroopenering")

Why not;
1) Creat A Website where car dealers can upload the vehicles they want to "unload", exposing them, to other car dealers in the area who might want to buy them?
and
2) Buy the vehicles other car dealers are looking to "unload" (which they may have a buyer for)

In other words;. . . an "OnLine WHOLESALE" website. . . of LOCAL vehicles for sale or trade!

Well. . . . my "idea" has "caught fire".

And. . . looks like I've "Struck A Nerve" in the used car market.

So. . . my "reason" for mentioning this here. . . . is to give others an "insight" into how "Us Entroopeneers" go about our lives of "Entroopeneering".

Thanks for reading,
Don Alm
Roseburg, Oregon

[Stephan Iscoe]

Hi, Adam;

I don't walk past enough people in a year to match the reach of a targeted display ad,
classified, direct mail piece, radio ad, 15 second TV spot, or billboard - all of which
can be had at deep discounts from published rates.

We use radio interviews, national, local and regional magazines and newspapers to drive offline traffic.
IMHO, Best approach when starting out is to have a sense for your demographic and
by 'remnant' ad space at discount.  I just scored a deal in a national weekly that had
a normal 'Open' rate over $20,000 and we got last minute remnant for $2000.
Not quite as cheap as Bear Stearns but pretty good ROI when traffic hits.

When remnant space isn't available, I'll just use the smallest available ad just to keep
the name out there for recognition.

The key to online promotional effort is a Massive Attack.  Whatever your geographic target,
you have to blanket that area.  We sell a consumer product, so business cards not a
wide enough net to cast.  I suspect whatever your product or service that display ads and direct mail will be the most effective traffic drivers.

Best of Success,
Stephan

[Adam Strong]

Hi Stephan,

You're right, the reach of a targeted display ad, classified, or anything else is far larger than the people you walk past each day... but that wasn't entirely the point of my post.

I mentioned the number of people you walk past each day because it's a tangible number.  And it illustrates a point that I think you're also driving at...

The offline world is a big place, and if you're going to try to appeal to them, you'd be foolish not to consider all your options.

Fact is, internet marketing tends to be incestuous... we market to ourselves instead of creating new opportunities where the ground is very fertile, but everyone's too busy tending their own garden to notice.

The potential for success is great, and the major take away from this thread is to never limit yourself.

We are entrepreneurs, and so we have a VERY simple motto to follow.

Find a need, fill a need.  DOMINATE the need.  Own it. Make it 100% yours.  Entrepreneurs are risk takers and we bite the dirt more often than we succeed.

And in a masochistic kind of way, we like it.  We thrive off of it.

Oh... I should also point out that "never limiting" yourself is a matter of degree, not subject.

Let me explain:
I know I'm not talking to compete newbies here, but I remind myself of this every single day...

The road to success looks like this:

Pick a field.  Pick a niche in the field.  Pick a subniche within the niche. Learn it. Master it. Revolutionize it. Teach it. Find a new niche, rinse and repeat.

Sometimes you'll have more than one niche, but if you're trying to do the "I wanna know a bit of everything" you'll never get to the point where you know "a lot of something".

Jacks of all trades are scared.  They know that if they pick one thing, focus on it and it tanks, they've got no fall-back plan.  They tell themselves that they're being versatile, but what they're really being is indecisive.

lol I'd go on, but I think I've been preachy enough...

I just wanted to share with you guys a bit of my philosophy, hope I didn't come off as a lecturer =)

I'm a firm believer in mindset as the father of innovation and action as the mother of progress... so I always search for the opportunity to share my thoughts with others in the hopes that they'll do the same with me.

I'm enjoying this thread by the way, for people just arriving on it, read every last word that Andrew has said.  He just gave you guys a free report that could (if you act properly) add some extra digits to your bank statement.

Peace,
Adam Strong

[DA]

. . . a "RECORDED MESSAGE"!

Ex:  "Recorded Message Reveals How to. . . . . !  Call 541-555-1212!"

When I look at selling my next product I try to put myself in the "brain" of my prospects.

I think;. . . WHAT are they thinking about when they just read (from my PostCard, Letter, email or websalespage)?

Are they thinking;  "Hey! Yeah!  This is something I'd like to know more about!"

or. . .

"Nah!  This is not worth my time to check further into!"

So. . . . YOUR JOB, as "Sales" people. . . . is to get your prospects to say, "Hey!  I'd like to know more about this so I will;
a) Pick up the phone and Call this "Recorded Message" to learn more
or. . .
b) Type in my name and email addy to get more info on this topic

Fortunately. . . over the years. . . I've learned how to "Grab" my prospects and "Motivate" them to "Raise Their Hands" and let me know WHO they are. . . so I can bring them along with my "TugBoat Marketing".

i. e:  "Tugboat Marketing" is something I learned years ago.   As a 10yr old kid, my dad would take me and my brothers down to Navy Pier in Chgo and watch the big ships come in.

I'd see this HUGE ship heading into the dock. . . then see this little tugboat go out to meet it.   The tug would shoot a small, nylon line over the bow of the big ship.

The sailors on the big ship would grab the nylon line and start pulling it up to them.   At the end of the nylon line was a large rope.   They'd pull in this large rope and at the end was a big chain.

They'd pull the big chain up and attach it to the bow and the tug, then, could "tug" to big ship into it's berth at the dock.

Well. . . . the same goes for "Marketing ANYTHING"!  Websites. . . etal.

Send your potential prospects a "nylon Line". . . get them to "raise their hands" with your initial intro to them (A postcard or letter or classified or display ad or email. . .  causing them to RESPOND by calling your recorded message or visit your introductory website or return the postpaid card)

Then. . . once you have the contact info of those who have "shown their interest in what YOU are offering". . . . send them your "Rope". . . . a sales page, or webpage. . . . giving the more info on your program.

Then. . . send up the "CHAIN". . . . the "HOOK". . . . that gets them to order from you!

Anyway. . . along with my "Used Car" topic above. . . let me expand;

There is now. . . in the USofA. . . with 28,000 new car dealers and 74,000 used car dealers. . . NO. . . "Area, Wholesale Websites" where used car dealers can upload vehicles they'd like to "wholesale" (get off their lots because they ain't sellin'). . .  where other used car dealers can go up, on ONE website to find cars available for wholesale. . . to buy from nearby used car dealers.

And when we're talkin' thousands of dollars for a product. . . . with a way for dealers to SAVE hundreds. . . . yowee!

And. . . I'm sorry if many of you reading this "do not have a clue as to what I'm talking about". . . so be it.   The ones who DO. . . can "sense" a winnah, here.

A "Wholesale, Dealers ONLY, local site. . . where local used car dealers can swap cars!"

Anyway. . . thanks for reading,

Don Alm,
Roseburg, Oregon

[AndrewCavanagh]

Stephen I think you may have overlooked a vital marketing
concept here.

While you may only walk past a few business owners every
day those business owners have access to huge markets.

And usually they aren't capitalizing on that access.

A small business that's been trading with locals for 5 years
most likely has a client list reaching into the thousands or
even tens of thousands.

By building relationships with business owners you are also
opening the door for joint ventures or other deals that have
no significant capital cost and no risk.

Which is why the method is so appealing to people starting
out with limited resources.

Don's example of Used Car Dealerships is a good one along these
lines.

No real setup costs and it's very easy to talk to the owners
of many used car dealerships.

I would also point out that the real money is providing a full
service solution for a used car dealer where you do everything
for them (you can outsource most of the work) and you
charge on an ongoing basis.

There are many other businesses with high transaction values
or where acquiring new clients is a costly exercise where the
same concept...just talking to the business owner can reap
huge rewards.

I actually agree with Stehpen's points about advertising.

If you're tracking your offline advertising and finding that any
advertising method is making you a profit whether it's postcards,
direct mail, recorded phone messages, classified ads, display ads...
then you should continue doing it while it's making you a profit.

You need to test and keep testing many different ways of marketing your
business.

Ultimately you should pursue every form of advertising and marketing
that makes you a profit.

It's not an either/or question.  If you're tracking results and it makes
you a profit you do it.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[Stephan Iscoe]

Hi, Andrew!

I don't not talk to people

However, as I mentioned, we sell a mass-market, consumer packaged goods product
and I place monthly print ads with circulation in the millions.

So, while I value my local and regional business connections and members of the community,
99% of our business comes from elsewhere

I might also mention that we are allocating more of the budget to PR, which
unfortunatley is harder to track, so is pretty much of a calculated leap of faith.

Best of Success,
Stephan

[DA]

One of my many projects was to place a "Tourist Information Board" in front of Town Visitor Centers or Chambers of Commerce.

These Boards were about 3ft high by 4ft wide. . . had a town Map in the center and 4x6 or 5x7 Ads of local hotels, restaurants, gift shops, attractions and realtors.

These Boards were either free standing or mounted on an outside wall next to the entrance so visitors could see the Map and Ads. . . . either during business hours or after hours.

The Boards also had a phone they could use to call the advertisers (make reservations)

To get these Boards set up. . . I showed the Manager either drawings or photos of my Boards.   When I got the OK. . . I began calling prospects and. . . when I got them on the phone I explained what I was doing and asked if they had access to the Internet.   It was surprising how many did have access. . . right there at their desk. . . while I was talking to them. . . . they could go to the site and I could discuss the various sizes and prizes involved and. . . . close the deal right there on the phone.

I'm sure there are many other applications where using a Website Sales Page can be used to direct prospects. . . . while you're on the phone with them.   I'll bet you could even sell websites this way.

This beats using "$4/gal" gas.

Don Alm

[AndrewCavanagh]

Actually you can track a lot of PR if you set it up
the right way.

Having got a huge amount of free exposure in
the printed press (I got paid for that) on radio
and on television over the years I've learned a
few secrets.

One of the biggest is to always have a second
really hot idea for a story when you get interviewed
by the media the first time around.

It's really easy to pitch that idea in the interview.

Also you need to engineer ways to use a call to
action.

"For listeners to this radio show only you can call
xxxxxxx now and I'll give you...etc"

Some interviewers won't let you do this but many will.

Also the easiest way to get free publicity is probably
on talk back radio...they have a lot of hours they're
required to fill with content by their managers and
they're always desperate to find good people with
interesting information to interview on the phone.

I'd also add that if you're trying to drive people from
free PR on radio to a website you are probably
supressing response by around 1,000%.

Get them to call a live telephone number.

(I've tested it many times.  In my tests 10 times as
many people called as visited a website and nearly
all of them would order.  Online only around 10%
ordered.  So 1/100th of the sales trying to drive
people to a website instead of getting them to call
a phone number.)

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[Stephan Iscoe]

Andrew,
You're right about tracking.

We do a lot of live radio and track with special toll-free numbers and urls.
We can also track results from Press Releases, but not always to where the
release was picked up.

Tomorrow we're doing a 2 hour live interview with giveaways to callers throughout the show.
I'll post the results here next week.

Best of Success,
Stephan

[AndrewCavanagh]

If you have a giveaway from radio you'll usually do far
better if you have an immediate upsell when people call
and train your phone staff on how to do the upsell.

Another alternative is having a giveaway that's sent
by mail and you include a sales letter in that giveaway.

But you should keep in mind that your prospect will
probably never be hotter than when he calls you off
a radio show so you should be doing everything you
can to convert that prospect into a buyer.

Most want to buy something when they call you anyway.

Our conversion from phone calls to sales was over 95%.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[DA]

I phone the owners of Pizza Delivery biznesses and ask them if they are inerested in getting MORE biz from local hotels.

When they ask "How?"....or say, "Yes!"....I ask if they have access to the internet right now.  (I'm surprised at how many have access, right there, at their desks)

Those who say they have access, "Now"...I point them to my website... http://www.tvchannelguides.com ...and I point out How my program can bring them more biz and I "close the deal", right there, on the phone.

Those who can't get to my site now, I give them the addy and call them the next day.

Works for me.

Don Alm

[DA]

I run Display and Classified Ads in magazines and USA Today to get "OffLine Traffic" to one of my main sites... http://www.midasreports.com

The reason I use OffLine media is because my programs are for OffLine "sales" people....people who get sales by "Person-To-Person" contact...either by phone or "In-Person".

Works for me.

Don Alm