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[Kelley]

...only because the product is so desirable that a few drunks will sign up anyway. 

But it would be nice to make a few sales to the sober people as well. 

My book is, without bragging, "The Second Greatest Story Ever Told."

That's why it sells no matter how many roadblocks my website throws up against the reader.

If I had a top flight copywriter with a little web designing thrown in, there is no doubt the book would generate millions of dollars in sales.

So here's what you bring to the table. You are a copywriter who hits home runs with men on base. And you don't just want a flat fee, you want some of the action.

If that's you, please PM me. If that's not you, go get drunk and then go read my website while thumbing your credit card.

The best to you.

Kelley
Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!

[John Ritz]

Dr. Kelley,

Certainly there are copywriters like myself who can transform your website from a "drunk-induced occasional purchase" (to paraphrase your post) to a powered sales magnet. No question.

However, there are basically 2 reasons why I charge a flat fee:

1) I went the royalty route many years ago and got screwed a few times before I said "forget it! I want to get paid up front." Can you imagine paying your doctor royalties over time and only after he cures you? If you want Clayton Makepeace, you're going to have to pay 7 figures or more over the measly 5 figures I charge. And, while I can't speak for him, in the past he's said he won't touch a job unless the mailing is worth it for his time.

2) I do occasionally work out special deals, but they are rare. I view that as a business partnership, and I can't put every client of mine in a partnership.

Now that doesn't mean I can't help you generate 7 or 8 figures. Far from it. I do that all the time for my clients, and I'll be happy to send testimonials & proof to anyone who requests it. In fact, I consider my fees downright paltry compared to the value I bring to the table. But just like you I have to pay the bills.

Listen, I like to help out everyone I can as much as possible, but my wife would kill me if I started working on the promised "bird in the bush."

But I don't work for people who do that. In fact, I've had people come to me who've already paid a couple grand to someone else for a salesletter that sucked and ended up COSTING them money. I don't work that way.

Now, that being said, I can understand your view point. A lot of people have gotten burned in this business of marketing.

And I have to say I imagine most of the serious copywriters here operate under the same principle.

So just some food for thought. But consider this: there are also less expensive ways to get closer to your goals. I offer critique services, including video critiques when requested, starting at just a little over $1k.

And let's not forget that Tony and others gave you several $1k's worth of free advice in the other section of this forum that you could implement right now and see a major difference in your bottom line. So you do have options.

We all want to succeed here (obviously), but I would wager that anyone that gives you a freebie, cheap, or "on future commission" salesletters would probably cost you more in the long run on lost revenue than you just biting the bullet and getting it done right.

Just like that "discount" surgeon down the street when I need my appendix removed.

Cheers,

John

P.S. Of course I'm certainly not the only game in town. There are many good copywriters that may fit your needs better. My best hope for you is to find one that does fit your needs. I really do wish you the best with your promotions, and please feel free to reply here or contact me if I can help in any way.

[AndrewCavanagh]

I think you need to work out your numbers.

Think about it.

If you're making just $50 a day in sales right now and a good copywriter
doubles your conversion you go from:

$17,800 in sales a year to
$35,600 in sales a year.

In your first 2 months you'd make an extra $3,000 which is enough to
hire a skilled copywriter to do a really good rewrite.

John has already mentioned why most good copywriters are wary of
percentage only deals...you just get ripped off too often mainly because
the person getting the copy doesn't value it.

The other reason is if someone has a website making just $50 in sales
a day they should know they can easily afford a $2,000 to $4,000 consult
and rewrite from a true pro.

If they don't know that there's a good chance they'll be a problem
client anyway.

And no sane copywriter will enter into a percentage only agreement
with a problem client.

Now if you made a combination offer say $1,000 to $2,000 up front plus a
percentage of sales then you may attract some really good talent.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[John Ritz]

And there's a really big reason why royalty-only deals don't always work out, in addition to what Andrew and I already mentioned.

It's because the offer and sales copy are only 2 out of the big 3 formulas you need for success. the 3rd (and arguably most important) is the market. That is, do you have a large enough audience that is WILLING to pay what you're asking for your product or service.

Let's say I was very open to a percentage-based agreement. And let's say you come to me with your latest ebook, "Collecting Tree Bark For Beginners."

It doesn't matter if you're practically GIVING your product away, really over-delivering beyond belief. Your offer could be giving away the farm for a few pennies!

And my copy could REALLY talk up the value they're getting, and I really think we've got something big here, so I want the best copy there is. So I decide to outsource it and hire Gary Bencivenga to write it.

Gosh, it costs me 6 or 7 or 8 figures to drag him out of retirement, but by golly, I know this offer is solid! And let's say (in our imaginary world, although he would never agree) that Gary agrees.

So we've got KILLER copy on top of it all.

But then after all that work, we find out that just not enough people are really that much into collecting tree bark.

Oops...a little late to learn that now, right.

Ok, that was an extreme example, but I hope it illustrates another point.

P.S. Even if you came to me with a flat fee and offered to hire me to write copy for a product like that, I don't care what you'd pay me. I'd have to bow out myself (but I'd warn you why first).

Cheers,

John

[Kelley]

First, let me say, John, your signature line is truly awesome. It's wonderful example of how a few words can convey a desirable positional niche. I wish I'd thought of it.

Your points are all well taken, except for the part about tree bark. It felt a little bit like a put down when my book is entitled "The Doctor Who Cures Cancer." So while your example is true about promoting tree bark, it doesn't apply to the topic of my book very well.

Due to a fall last year, I discovered that I had some broken bone bits in my back that were probably there since I was a year old. The fall has put a strain on my budget both in added expenses and lost time from work. So as much as I would have liked to have hired someone of your obvious high caliber, it was not doable from my end.

Meanwhile, the story I've written could save a million lives a year from serious pain and suffering. So yes, my request was unusual...and so is the story itself. If the only thing standing between reducing and eliminating pain for a million people was procuring a top notch copywriter, then that seemed like a small hurdle to leap over.

Still, it's easy to understand why you would be reluctant to take on the task.

On the positive side, I'll have something awesome to announce in the coming weeks.

Until then, the best to you.

Kelley Eidem

[John Ritz]

Hi, Kelley.

The tree bark example was just a silly one I thought up. I didn't mean to imply anything, just that there's probably not a big demand for an infoproduct on collecting tree bark (I could be wrong, I didn't check it out. I've seen lots of weird things sell on eBay, for example).

As to my sig line, "I FIX $500 Sales Letters", I can't take credit for that. It's a swipe.

A while back a fellow copywriter in the UK, Alan Forrest Smith, told a story of the days when he used to cut hair. There was a salon that had a big sign in their window: "Haircuts. $7"

Across the street, there was another salon with a sign in their window. Yep, you guessed it: "We FIX $7 Haircuts"

But I always toy with my sig, testing new things and new offers, so it may change from time to time.

Good luck with your book launch. I hope you break some sales records with it!

Cheers,

John

[Kelley]

Aaron Stanley has taken up the call, and put together a sales page that is working!

Meanwhile, he's putting together a squeeze page. Once that is up and running, the book sales should enable me to retire from my day job! Meanwhile, thousands of people are going to my hubpage to discover how I cured my own stage 4 cancer about 10 years ago.

With my back problem, retiring won't be a minute too soon. The good news is that a neurosurgeon told me that other than the vertabra with the broken bones, the rest of my spine is like that of a 25 year old. Not bad for someone who was 57 at the time that he said that. It must be all those supplements I've taken over the years.

If you use a weighted average, my spine would be about 27. But then, using a weighted average over my lifetime, I only weigh 175 pounds.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

[John Ritz]

Very nice! I'm so glad you ended up with a win/win scenario, as those are the best!

Please drop in and let us know how you make out in your campaign, if you don't mind.

Cheers,

John

[okayloman]

Maybe if you use a copywriter who mastered in hypnowriting like Joe Vitale, it will increase your sales.

W.  Rachmadi
okaylo. com

Thank you. I did find someone, namely Aaron Stanley, and the sales have jumped up.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem
Together we can cure cancer - one day at a time!