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[profitclinic]

Why would they?

The term has become so identified with abuse, exploitation and other forms of unconscionable conduct in Internet marketing that anyone in their right mind would avoid it like bubonic plague.

People occasionally refer to me as a guru, intending it as a compliment. I usually contact them, pointing out that, while I appreciate any intended compliment, it doesn't sit well with me for two reasons:

• the negative connotations associated with the term, and

• the fact that it often obscures the message by focusing attention on the messenger.

Typically, they write back to explain that they meant it as a compliment. I've yet to receive a reply that says "No, I meant to say that you're a parasite who feeds off the fear, ignorance, greed, laziness or gullibility of others".

Here's an archived excerpt from a reply I wrote to a reader of I-Sales Digest in my first issue as moderator. I think it puts my own position fairly succinctly. Nothing since has persuaded me to change my view.

==> ALOHA, JOHN AUDETTE

From: "Gloria H."

John Audette,

What is this?

>> I'm writing this from Maui, so instead of closing with goodbye, I'm going to close with a word from Hawaii that has many meanings, including: goodbye, hello, until we meet again -- and love. Aloha,
John (Audette, founder of I-Sales Digest) <<

Let me join my voice with the loud chorus I hear of "I don't like this"!

While I know that John Counsel will do a great job of running the I-Sales List and Adam Audette has proven he can run Adventive effectively, it's not the same. Ex YSM doesn't have the same ring as YSM ["Your Striving Moderator", JA's sign-off).

I have declared you my Internet Guru to all and sundry.  Now they are going to wonder why someone else is wearing the white robe and sitting on the rock! Please tell me you aren't sitting in the sand with one of those little umbrellas in your Guinness.

You and your lists have taught me a lot John. So, stop polishing the Porsche and put down the diaper and peek in now and then please.

Aloha and thank you,

Gloria H.


[ Moderator Comment ]

Folks, this is not a comment on Gloria's comments. It's a general statement of position for future reference, nothing more. Gloria's whimsical metaphor has simply brought it to mind, and it's timely. I like to strike while the iron's hot, and the analogy suits.

The only white clothing I usually wear is my underwear, which I'm not inclined to offer for public display, especially with me in it (be duly grateful), so I dunno who's wearing any white robes.

The rock is bare, as I suspect it's always been, except for a very small, concave mirror, a cap and a shoe.

I am mightily suspicious of all deceptive, manipulative sellers, and "gurus" tend to be right up/down there with the best/worst of 'em in my experience and observation. If what you're selling is legitimate, be honest about your motives. Integrity is NOT a new way to play the game. It IS the game.

If you're close enough to that rock to see yourself in the mirror (concave to correct that swollen head), you're welcome to don the cap and/or shoe if they fit. They're both a soiled white hue to match that soiled white robe you're wearing. One will protect you from all the flying Bovine Sediment coming home to roost; the other will help you to avoid stepping in it.

Hop to it.

John Counsel
Moderator

I hope this clarifies my use of the term "guru" a little better.

Bottom Line: Like so many other terms — like "marketing", "selling", "quote" (or "bid") — the term "guru" has become so abused that its original, perfectly valid and honourable meaning has become obscured and it has taken on a fixed meaning in the popular perception that's effectively impossible for us to change.

While there are many true teachers and guides in Internet marketing, none that I know would welcome the term "guru" being applied to them. So it's a foregone conclusion that they're never going to apply such a pejorative epithet to themselves.


John Counsel
CEO, The Profit Clinic

Insight Report: "What the 'Gurus' WON'T Tell You! (The Facts, Fallacies, Fables and Falsehoods of Internet marketing")
(Or How to separate the 'ahah!' from the rah-rah, ga-ga and ca-ca!)

[Dr. Mani]

Any good ad is targeted to the buyer. Who else should it be targeted at? Are we now supposed to be against copywriting?

...

Predatory tactics? As in trying to sell the product?

Chris, I'd have been just as confused - except for devoting most of
Sunday studying a lot of John Counsel's material.

John is talking about 'sellers' as in those of us who see ourselves as
'business owners' - and saying we should stop thinking and behaving
like 'buyers'.

Sure, we buy.  But the stuff we buy is to help us become better 'sellers'.

So make 'buying' decisions in a logical, analytical and strategic sense.
In other words with the mindset of a 'seller' (a.k.a. biz owner) rather
than with the herd mentality of a 'buyer' (or consumer, employee) who
is taken in by emotional triggers and power-copywriting to the point
that they ignore the logical and rational components that should govern
all buying decisions.

Hope that makes some sense?   The only alternative is to devote a
Sunday to studying John's "What Gurus WON'T Tell You"
(there are worse ways to spend a weekend, I can tell you that - it
was an enlightening experience, I blogged about it)

All success
Dr.Mani

[Chris Lockwood]

So we should spend a weekend reading someone's stuff so we know how to interpret their forum posts? That's interesting. How many people post here, and how many weekends will it take to read all their work?

[profitclinic]

Dang it, Chris... I nearly poked my eye out on that chip of yours! If it were hanging out the back of your truck instead of on your shoulder, you'd have to tie a red flag to it.

Since you feel Dr Phil is needed to interpret for you, maybe this reference from Wikipedia will help you understand the reference:

Origin

The saying originated during the nineteenth century in the United States, where people wanting a physical fight would carry a chip of wood on their shoulder, daring others to knock it off.

Derived meaning

Carrying a chip on one's shoulder was a form of challenge in the same spirit as a medieval knight throwing down his gauntlet. If an opponent picked up the glove, or knocked the chip of wood off their shoulder, the challenge was accepted and the fight was on.

Usage over time changed, now suggesting somebody who shows a belligerent attitude, acting as though they are asking for a fight. The chip is now figurative, but the idea remains the same.

British and Irish meaning

In both countries it also has a meaning of somebody who has a self-righteous feeling of oppression or inferiority which they never miss an opportunity to flaunt. The implication of looking for a fight is less strong. It more implies trying to gain the upper hand through second-hand moral superiority.

In Ireland the joke is made about "The well balanced Irishman: a chip on both shoulders". This is somebody who has an endless supply of current and, more often historical, national injustices to whine about. It is quite probable that all these are true, but the fact that they never miss a chance to bring them up, often combined with the fact that they have never suffered these injustices themselves, leaves the person open to satire.

Hmmm... you're certainly a multi-cultural personality, Chris. But I'm still not sure whether you qualify as a slighted knight, street thug or whiner. Or maybe you're just a well-balanced mix of all three?

Do you have a personal preference?

Whatever your choice, may I suggest cutting that plank in two and putting one half on each shoulder in the Irish fashion?

John

[Dr. Mani]

So we should spend a weekend reading someone's stuff so we know how to interpret their forum posts? That's interesting. How many people post here, and how many weekends will it take to read all their work?

Smart entrepreneurs employ leverage.

You can leverage my reading from the weekend, by simply
reading my post above which supplies all necessary footnotes
to understand John's earlier post.



All success
Dr.Mani

P.S. - If this one isn't clear either, then wait until NEXT weekend.
I'll read all of MY own writing and then post a clarifying note.

[maakd]

At the early stage  I asked to my senior  how much I need to invest/ expense
every month so that I earn 5000/ month, Now I found that they have no idea
where to use that money. They every time suggest me FFA site, send him Blank
email, Blast your site giving me link , and become ring member within his network.
I paid little my hard earn money to them without gaining anything 6-7 months. I
think these all are spam

Later I found that There is no secret to earn in internet marketing. Just do correct
thing in correct time with your correct decision and plan. Any one suggest your
idea?

[chanceol]

this is absolutely a lie.  i had awful experience of that. 

[nicoletiern]

Absolutely - Google them.
A real "Guru" will be referenced thousands of times, you'll find many resources in a search on their name, their company and on forum threads.

I'd guess that's a good advise, but it would rule out every new company out there doing the job of a guru, and it's an opportunity you'd let go

[Lisa Preston]

Well then, if they're new, they aren't "GURUS", are they?

[matta]

You can also check out their website using domain tools that will help you see what other sites they own, and you can check those out individually as well.

[paperkool]

I've found that everyone has faults.  Even the so-called best have issues.  What's good for the goose ain't always good for the gander.  The best thing to do is take the best from all and rock with it.  Marketing is a touch and go situation.  You'll finally find your niche and then things do change.  Stay alert and continue to study. Never Stop studying. "Hoodini the Great" was great because he continued to study.

[acton]

Internet marketing is very best.  this business is very batter.  if this do online sale, then this is very great idea.

[jameswitschner]

what I can't believe is all the networkers that promote their "training" for the Guru and they don't even know that all they are really doing is making the "teacher" money. I have read alot of their stuff and some of it is really good but I'm not going to sell the stuff for them I can produce my own leads and at least the people I talk to are talking to me for my stuff not some other guy's!!